Way back, when I was young and working on a physics PhD during the week and playing D&D on weekends, I had similar thoughts: what if the Scientific Method was a powerful spell in and of itself?
Then again, the Dungeons and Dragons rules themselves hint at Christianity as a powerful Dispel Magic cult. Or there were the Illusionist characters who could make their audience help in casting real spells through the use of mundane trickery.
And there is that haunting Jack Vance story: "The Men Return."
If magic were demonstrably real, wouldn't early attempts to study it have only produced further proof of it's power, and strengthened rather than weakened our belief?
In fact, the ancients were also faced with the puzzling mystery that the world they saw in day-to-day life seemed to lack the same magic they were told about in their myths.
The Greeks' primary explanation was that men had declined in power and stature since the Age of Heroes. (The Hebrews agreed that there were superhuman demigods in times of legend, but believed that these Nephilim were simply wiped out.) Plutarch considers a more interesting sub-problem in On The Failure Of The Oracles - that the fortune-tellers he sees in his day lack the numbers and mystic power of the oracles of legend - which he came to the fascinatingly stupid conclusion must be because the human population had declined.
So the decline of magic would have to long predate the birth of modern skepticism.
In fairness, Plutarch *does* consider and reject the possibility that the gods are offended by human behaviors, including their tendency to be skeptical and test the oracles' accuracy. I'm not sure if that makes the idea more plausible (because maybe the skeptics have been chipping away at magic for thousands of years?), or less (because it's the sort of excuse people have been coming up with literally for thousands of years.)
Incidentally, the reason he things the population has declined is much the same as why he thinks the oracles have declined - modern troop counts etc don't match those in myths. So this isn't limited to magic.
I had mentioned in a previous article that Plutarch's history of Julius Caesar included an anecdote about a "magic missile" that lit Pompey's camp on fire. What I found most interesting about the account was that it lacked any identiable heroic provenance (e.g. Caesar himself "noticed" it, but played no role in conjuring or directing it). It’s inexlicability is the main reason I suspect it was probably describing a real event.
If it was the result of magic, it seems to be of a kind that disobey the "weak" rule, at least. But it also seems to circumvent the notion that all magic must incorporate belief at both ends to have a measurable effect. The same might be said for the summoning of storms and other war magic. The question becomes whether this is a different species of psi/magic. If so, maybe this partition marks the key difference between "black" and "white" magic. It also stands to reason; magic that degrades and destroys is easier to accomplish with greater (immediate) effect, while that which heals and reconstructs is less efficient and requires participation and belief at both ends.
I will comment that the rich 'elite' of society obviously show belief in magic. They have magic rituals, magical meals and consumptions, wear magic iconography, make magic hand signs and so forth. There's even people like Bob Dylan who explicitly say they sold their soul to Satan for fame and fortune.
It's clear that the 'powerful' of our society all believe in magic and their belief is unshakable. The question of which came first, the magic rituals or the power, is more uncertain but if they all believe it why wouldn't we?
I don't get the impression that belief in magic is more common at higher levels of society than lower ones. Of course plenty of celebrities do believe in one form of woo or another, just like any other level of society, but plenty of them are also vocal skeptics of the supernatural - if anything, I'd guess celebrities are *more* likely to be skeptics than average.
I get the impression you think they may *claim* to be aggressive skeptics or merely normal levels of superstitious/religious, but in reality they're all hard-core members of a secret, united occult society. What appear to the uninitiated to be merely normal hand movements, themed parties, jewellery, jokes about "selling your soul", or the like, are in reality all part of these secret occult rituals. Am I understanding you correctly?
Not quite. You are correct in that I believe most, if not all, elites are members of occult societies. You are also correct in that I believe that anyone in attendance of themed parties to be part of the same general occult group. I disagree with the assertion that the elite, in public, claim to be skeptics at all. Almost to a tee they openly proclaim God, UFOs, or some other special force. Secondly I do not believe their united occult society is totally united, though in the US I do believe they are closer because of how inbred and tight knit they are here. In regards to the politics of their gestures I do not think they are all part of occult rituals.
I bring up a few examples:
-Marina Abramović and her spirit cooking. She is involved with Obama and Hillary. Just that alone, tallying up who is in the same camp as those two and would act on their behalf, constitutes a non-negligible percentage of the american elite.
-The former South Korean President Park Geun-hye who was explicitly part of an occult cult. They uncovered rumors of at least 6-7 more but we never heard from that investigation again.
-No American President has ever claimed to be an atheist.
-The increasing shunting of magical thinking over to 'ufos'. It's the same thing, the same channeled belief in the superhuman, except we have constant news stories about the government and UFO reports.
Do the elite believe and study the occult -more- than commoners? At least equal, and I claim more. My evidence is the pushing of sky worship returning (Climate Change, UFOs). My more persuasive evidence is the elite obsession with the study of human-psychology and MK-ULTRA styled projects. They are hoping to uncover sorcery to control people using drugs, AI algorithms, magic imagery on TV, repetitive propaganda.
My counter assertion is that you are so inured to the abuse of magic and magical thinking from our elite that it's become banal to you and hard to see.
Obviously it's only anecdotal on my part, but with all the supernatural experiences I've had over the decades, I can safely say that Magic is a very real power. However it is dangerous in the extreme & unlike say, Electricity, it is *not* a, 'Neutral Force'. There is no such thing as "White Magic".
''About two million years ago, before the last major cycle of ice ages during which Atlantis became a predominant civilization, some Bird-People born on Earth in previous ages, who had fulfilled their spiritual mission and migrated to Arcturus with their Star ancestors, the Blue Avians, long before the birth of Humanity, came back to this home-planet of their origins to settle. They lived and interbred with Humans, creating an elite bloodline dynasty in Hyperborea, which became known as the Elves of Halves, considered as 'half-gods'. They helped your people and fought intergalactic wars at your sides against reptilian invaders, dragons, orcs and titans, in battles kept in your ancestral memories.''
''They were greatly influential in the development of the Atlantean civilization of your Human times. When ice covered the Arctic, some moved into the underworld and became clearer skinned intraterrestrials. But over the course of time, they started interbreeding with Humans on a regular basis, and factions of them made pacts with reptilian lords, to divide this home-planet between ruling kings. From the Watchers they were, they forsake their mission, fell out of the Star Council and were ordered off the Earth, never to return.''
Study of magic implies a nonbelief. The purpose of a study is to establish belief. Ergo, preceding the commencement of study, there was no belief.
This would dissipate the effect.
Also who knows how the effect spreads. Direct perception? Radius? Imagined perception? If all inhabitants of New York believe they live in a nonmagical city, and use their Imagination to layer this lack of belief on their mental-map of the city, is magic even possible anywhere in NYC? Even in a room full of Christians who deeply believe, is it possible the effect from neighbors cancels it out? If so, is the point of Churches to get us "in the mood" for the effect?
Delightful!
Way back, when I was young and working on a physics PhD during the week and playing D&D on weekends, I had similar thoughts: what if the Scientific Method was a powerful spell in and of itself?
Then again, the Dungeons and Dragons rules themselves hint at Christianity as a powerful Dispel Magic cult. Or there were the Illusionist characters who could make their audience help in casting real spells through the use of mundane trickery.
And there is that haunting Jack Vance story: "The Men Return."
If magic were demonstrably real, wouldn't early attempts to study it have only produced further proof of it's power, and strengthened rather than weakened our belief?
In fact, the ancients were also faced with the puzzling mystery that the world they saw in day-to-day life seemed to lack the same magic they were told about in their myths.
The Greeks' primary explanation was that men had declined in power and stature since the Age of Heroes. (The Hebrews agreed that there were superhuman demigods in times of legend, but believed that these Nephilim were simply wiped out.) Plutarch considers a more interesting sub-problem in On The Failure Of The Oracles - that the fortune-tellers he sees in his day lack the numbers and mystic power of the oracles of legend - which he came to the fascinatingly stupid conclusion must be because the human population had declined.
So the decline of magic would have to long predate the birth of modern skepticism.
That's a great comment. I'm actually been reading Plutarch's Moralia this weekend so I'll get to see his comments on this first-hand.
In fairness, Plutarch *does* consider and reject the possibility that the gods are offended by human behaviors, including their tendency to be skeptical and test the oracles' accuracy. I'm not sure if that makes the idea more plausible (because maybe the skeptics have been chipping away at magic for thousands of years?), or less (because it's the sort of excuse people have been coming up with literally for thousands of years.)
Incidentally, the reason he things the population has declined is much the same as why he thinks the oracles have declined - modern troop counts etc don't match those in myths. So this isn't limited to magic.
I had mentioned in a previous article that Plutarch's history of Julius Caesar included an anecdote about a "magic missile" that lit Pompey's camp on fire. What I found most interesting about the account was that it lacked any identiable heroic provenance (e.g. Caesar himself "noticed" it, but played no role in conjuring or directing it). It’s inexlicability is the main reason I suspect it was probably describing a real event.
If it was the result of magic, it seems to be of a kind that disobey the "weak" rule, at least. But it also seems to circumvent the notion that all magic must incorporate belief at both ends to have a measurable effect. The same might be said for the summoning of storms and other war magic. The question becomes whether this is a different species of psi/magic. If so, maybe this partition marks the key difference between "black" and "white" magic. It also stands to reason; magic that degrades and destroys is easier to accomplish with greater (immediate) effect, while that which heals and reconstructs is less efficient and requires participation and belief at both ends.
I will comment that the rich 'elite' of society obviously show belief in magic. They have magic rituals, magical meals and consumptions, wear magic iconography, make magic hand signs and so forth. There's even people like Bob Dylan who explicitly say they sold their soul to Satan for fame and fortune.
It's clear that the 'powerful' of our society all believe in magic and their belief is unshakable. The question of which came first, the magic rituals or the power, is more uncertain but if they all believe it why wouldn't we?
I don't get the impression that belief in magic is more common at higher levels of society than lower ones. Of course plenty of celebrities do believe in one form of woo or another, just like any other level of society, but plenty of them are also vocal skeptics of the supernatural - if anything, I'd guess celebrities are *more* likely to be skeptics than average.
I get the impression you think they may *claim* to be aggressive skeptics or merely normal levels of superstitious/religious, but in reality they're all hard-core members of a secret, united occult society. What appear to the uninitiated to be merely normal hand movements, themed parties, jewellery, jokes about "selling your soul", or the like, are in reality all part of these secret occult rituals. Am I understanding you correctly?
Not quite. You are correct in that I believe most, if not all, elites are members of occult societies. You are also correct in that I believe that anyone in attendance of themed parties to be part of the same general occult group. I disagree with the assertion that the elite, in public, claim to be skeptics at all. Almost to a tee they openly proclaim God, UFOs, or some other special force. Secondly I do not believe their united occult society is totally united, though in the US I do believe they are closer because of how inbred and tight knit they are here. In regards to the politics of their gestures I do not think they are all part of occult rituals.
I bring up a few examples:
-Marina Abramović and her spirit cooking. She is involved with Obama and Hillary. Just that alone, tallying up who is in the same camp as those two and would act on their behalf, constitutes a non-negligible percentage of the american elite.
-The former South Korean President Park Geun-hye who was explicitly part of an occult cult. They uncovered rumors of at least 6-7 more but we never heard from that investigation again.
-No American President has ever claimed to be an atheist.
-The increasing shunting of magical thinking over to 'ufos'. It's the same thing, the same channeled belief in the superhuman, except we have constant news stories about the government and UFO reports.
Do the elite believe and study the occult -more- than commoners? At least equal, and I claim more. My evidence is the pushing of sky worship returning (Climate Change, UFOs). My more persuasive evidence is the elite obsession with the study of human-psychology and MK-ULTRA styled projects. They are hoping to uncover sorcery to control people using drugs, AI algorithms, magic imagery on TV, repetitive propaganda.
My counter assertion is that you are so inured to the abuse of magic and magical thinking from our elite that it's become banal to you and hard to see.
Ah, one perfect example of our host's portrayal of magic. The vaccine mandates. "My vaccine won't work unless you take yours too".
Obviously it's only anecdotal on my part, but with all the supernatural experiences I've had over the decades, I can safely say that Magic is a very real power. However it is dangerous in the extreme & unlike say, Electricity, it is *not* a, 'Neutral Force'. There is no such thing as "White Magic".
"White Magic" would be Miracles of God and done by God. Nothing else counts.
The reality of magic has become more and more plausible to me as years have passed.
This is the best thing I've read all week. Extremely thought provoking. Thank you!
Magic is real, and so were orcs.
#+begin_quote
''About two million years ago, before the last major cycle of ice ages during which Atlantis became a predominant civilization, some Bird-People born on Earth in previous ages, who had fulfilled their spiritual mission and migrated to Arcturus with their Star ancestors, the Blue Avians, long before the birth of Humanity, came back to this home-planet of their origins to settle. They lived and interbred with Humans, creating an elite bloodline dynasty in Hyperborea, which became known as the Elves of Halves, considered as 'half-gods'. They helped your people and fought intergalactic wars at your sides against reptilian invaders, dragons, orcs and titans, in battles kept in your ancestral memories.''
''They were greatly influential in the development of the Atlantean civilization of your Human times. When ice covered the Arctic, some moved into the underworld and became clearer skinned intraterrestrials. But over the course of time, they started interbreeding with Humans on a regular basis, and factions of them made pacts with reptilian lords, to divide this home-planet between ruling kings. From the Watchers they were, they forsake their mission, fell out of the Star Council and were ordered off the Earth, never to return.''
#+end_quote
— [[https://cyberthal-ghost.nfshost.com/the-sasquatch-message-to-humanity-book-2-interdimensional-teachings-from-our-elders/][The Sasquatch Message to Humanity Book 2: Interdimensional Teachings from our Elders]]
Summary and corroboration:
The essential role of Prime Directive in understanding the alien phenomenon
https://scenicsasquatch.com/2022/04/14/the-essential-role-of-prime-directive-in-understanding-the-alien-phenomenon/
Study of magic implies a nonbelief. The purpose of a study is to establish belief. Ergo, preceding the commencement of study, there was no belief.
This would dissipate the effect.
Also who knows how the effect spreads. Direct perception? Radius? Imagined perception? If all inhabitants of New York believe they live in a nonmagical city, and use their Imagination to layer this lack of belief on their mental-map of the city, is magic even possible anywhere in NYC? Even in a room full of Christians who deeply believe, is it possible the effect from neighbors cancels it out? If so, is the point of Churches to get us "in the mood" for the effect?
This bears further non-study.
For some miracles like the Resurrection of Jesus. No one other than Jesus believed in that before it actually happened.
Judgement as a requirement of Justice happened regardless. But acts of mercy seem to require people to believe. Especially after the Wedding at Cana.
That is my hypothesis.