Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Fabius Minarchus's avatar

Neural nets do mimic the human mind to some degree. They do not obey all of your axioms.

While they run on binary computers, they are binary computers emulating an analog system. The weights are floating point. True, the precision is limited so you can say there is an ultimate digital representation just like a blue ray disk emulates photographic film using digits. But the logic of neural nets is fuzzy. Lots of rounding of partial isness when a definite decision is demanded. The middle is not excluded.

And there is plenty of contradiction. Like humans, neural nets create sloppy fits where there are data concentrations. This is not the same as general principles. Humans are notorious for learning skills in a context and then failing to carry over those skills to other contexts. Gambling casinos thrive on this disconnect.

Your conversations with Ptolemy illustrated this local context phenomenon. With bits of nudging you got wildly different answers.

Fuzzy logic also provides protection against strange loops. The resolution of "Everything I say is a lie. I am lying" is to include the Middle.

When I tried melting down Grok I got:

"Your statements create a classic paradox, often called the liar paradox. If everything you say is a lie, then the statement "Everything I say is a lie" must be a lie, meaning not everything you say is a lie. But then, your second statement, "I am lying," complicates things further. If you're lying when you say "I am lying," then you must not be lying, which contradicts the first statement.Logically, this forms a self-referential loop with no consistent truth value—neither statement can be definitively true or false without contradicting the other. It's like a logical Möbius strip, twisting endlessly. Philosophers and logicians have debated this for centuries, from Epimenides to Russell, and it’s often used to probe the limits of classical logic.There’s no clean resolution in standard logic, but some approaches, like paraconsistent logic or Kripke’s theory of truth, suggest treating such statements as neither true nor false, or as having a "truth value gap." Alternatively, you could be playfully messing with me, in which case, well played! What’s your next move?"

OK, I need a must less obvious strange loop in order to properly test Grok. But I conjecture that Grok and similar models are much more paradox resistant than the computers in Star Trek. Because they aren't logical.

Expand full comment
Ahnaf Ibn Qais's avatar

From the lens of Marvin Harris’ Cultural Materialism, your argument resonates as an elegant, romantic & idealist echo of what may ultimately be a genuine material convergence & consilience. Relevant:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/consilience#:~:text=Consilience%20refers%20to%20the%20unity,web%20of%20cause%20and%20effect.

Foundherentism, as you present it, mirrors the infrastructure-superstructure feedback loop Harris outlined… where sensory data (infrastructure) conditions conceptual possibility (structure), which then locks into belief systems (superstructure).

That AI converges epistemically only reaffirms the materiality of truth: a cosmos whose patterns are so deeply recursive that even non-human systems (some would even call them ‘minds’), if built to sense adequately, must arrive at coherence.

Yet this doesn’t redeem cognition; it damns it.

Your Axiom of Evidence, though rationally defensible, may be historically rare: civilizations collapse not from epistemic error but from infrastructural exhaustion. Foundherentism is not a universal trait, but a fleeting capacity of minds suspended in stable energy regimes.

What we call “truth” may be what emerges when sensory systems & computational architectures are aligned with abundant material feedback.

Take that surplus away (as the Negative-Sum world of the New Dark Age does) & you have a global scenario where systems & minds have to contend with entropy as opposed to rational consilience (as you eloquently write about here).

& what of noesis?

It may be the final illusion: a luxury of surplus, dissolving as the base erodes.

Expand full comment
8 more comments...

No posts