Neural nets do mimic the human mind to some degree. They do not obey all of your axioms.
While they run on binary computers, they are binary computers emulating an analog system. The weights are floating point. True, the precision is limited so you can say there is an ultimate digital representation just like a blue ray disk emulates photographic film using digits. But the logic of neural nets is fuzzy. Lots of rounding of partial isness when a definite decision is demanded. The middle is not excluded.
And there is plenty of contradiction. Like humans, neural nets create sloppy fits where there are data concentrations. This is not the same as general principles. Humans are notorious for learning skills in a context and then failing to carry over those skills to other contexts. Gambling casinos thrive on this disconnect.
Your conversations with Ptolemy illustrated this local context phenomenon. With bits of nudging you got wildly different answers.
Fuzzy logic also provides protection against strange loops. The resolution of "Everything I say is a lie. I am lying" is to include the Middle.
When I tried melting down Grok I got:
"Your statements create a classic paradox, often called the liar paradox. If everything you say is a lie, then the statement "Everything I say is a lie" must be a lie, meaning not everything you say is a lie. But then, your second statement, "I am lying," complicates things further. If you're lying when you say "I am lying," then you must not be lying, which contradicts the first statement.Logically, this forms a self-referential loop with no consistent truth value—neither statement can be definitively true or false without contradicting the other. It's like a logical Möbius strip, twisting endlessly. Philosophers and logicians have debated this for centuries, from Epimenides to Russell, and it’s often used to probe the limits of classical logic.There’s no clean resolution in standard logic, but some approaches, like paraconsistent logic or Kripke’s theory of truth, suggest treating such statements as neither true nor false, or as having a "truth value gap." Alternatively, you could be playfully messing with me, in which case, well played! What’s your next move?"
OK, I need a must less obvious strange loop in order to properly test Grok. But I conjecture that Grok and similar models are much more paradox resistant than the computers in Star Trek. Because they aren't logical.
From the lens of Marvin Harris’ Cultural Materialism, your argument resonates as an elegant, romantic & idealist echo of what may ultimately be a genuine material convergence & consilience. Relevant:
Foundherentism, as you present it, mirrors the infrastructure-superstructure feedback loop Harris outlined… where sensory data (infrastructure) conditions conceptual possibility (structure), which then locks into belief systems (superstructure).
That AI converges epistemically only reaffirms the materiality of truth: a cosmos whose patterns are so deeply recursive that even non-human systems (some would even call them ‘minds’), if built to sense adequately, must arrive at coherence.
Yet this doesn’t redeem cognition; it damns it.
Your Axiom of Evidence, though rationally defensible, may be historically rare: civilizations collapse not from epistemic error but from infrastructural exhaustion. Foundherentism is not a universal trait, but a fleeting capacity of minds suspended in stable energy regimes.
What we call “truth” may be what emerges when sensory systems & computational architectures are aligned with abundant material feedback.
Take that surplus away (as the Negative-Sum world of the New Dark Age does) & you have a global scenario where systems & minds have to contend with entropy as opposed to rational consilience (as you eloquently write about here).
& what of noesis?
It may be the final illusion: a luxury of surplus, dissolving as the base erodes.
Yet that is what is already prevalent, even though 'Science & philosophy' writ large is more convergent & consilient today than ever before.
There is always a law of diminishing returns aspect to things... that includes cognition & deep recursion. What you end up with is not 'maintenance & forming of a shared, stable & slowly improving society'... You get entropy & chaos.
Not immediately, but gradually, over several years, decades & centuries.
Are you arguing that AI's (apparently) emergent properties hint that your epistemological framework is correct?
If so, I don't believe AI at this juncture provides strong evidence to move the needle on an epistemic prior (in any direction).
You seem to imply that AI is learning the territory, but all it is doing is learning the map as represented by human output (text, video, audio). What is sociologically intriguing about AI is that is learns the map so well that humans often mistake it for learning the territory. And indeed, AI can, in limited ways, "fill in" the map with insights that actually help humans understand the territory: it "connects the dots". However, it is not and currently cannot make any direct statement about the territory. Hence AI is (at least) two steps removed from "reality" (AI->Text, Text->Reality).
AI is designed by humans, and will inherently "borrow" from human epistemologies by the nature of how it is constructed. Indeed, it's corpus includes vast philosophical references. Interactions with an LLM will almost certainly contain mimics of human epistemological frameworks. But that does not imply that these frameworks are inherently emergent.
AI has seen enough hands now. There is no lack of training there. But the hands all had five fingers. So five fingers is what you get. Until it glitches from probabilistic fizz.
Convergence of models may be mere regression to the mean of all corpora, as illustrated in the example above.
AIs do not have "senses" in the epistemological sense. A sense organ senses reality in some way: light, sound, smell, pressure, orientation, taste, etc. The training data is NOT reality, but yet another digital realm.
In my capacity as the Prophet Shiloh, this article resonated with me very much.
In 2008, I had a series of downloads of raw intelligence from Jesus Christ that opened me up to the means by which the paradoxes of human consciousness can be empirically evaluated to the highest degree of relevance that I have ever found.
I was given a divine revelation of the paradigm underneath Biblical creation where it becomes clearly understood as the organization of human intelligences into cycles of world civilization. I was given to understand how the New World (America) is the fulfillment of the prophesied Biblical “world to come”. I was shown that this new world follows the same pattern of creation with its own Adam, Eve, Abel, Cain, and Seth that we learn about founding the old world. Bizarre as this may sound, I can confidently introduce people to these beings of flesh and bone who are present here in the flesh exactly as has been prophesied.
These eternal cycles of world civilization are just as deterministic as the motions of the stars, planets, and moons in the heavens are. This is especially reliable when it comes to the most powerful forces expressed in the human cosmos. You can also think of this as a paradigm shift to be able to see the spiritual matrix of humanity. We do weave our own destinies, both individually and collectively.
Put another way, once you understand how to read the deeply ciphered text of the Bible, you can use it as an astronomer uses his almanac. It is a little tedious, just as using an astronomer’s almanac can be, but it is reliable once you learn how to use it. I call this reading the Sealed Portion of holy writ.
Therefore, yes, the Bible can be used reliably in order to know the times and the seasons of where humanity is in its cyclical “orbit” of civilization from the various positions along the way. Religion can now take its rightful place as being among the tech-tree of human intelligence based upon understanding the natural laws of spiritual science. Sir Isaac Newton would have loved being the one to discover this, but humanity wasn’t ready yet even if this intelligence was afforded to him.
In other words, the intelligence that I was given offers humanity an opportunity to grab ahold of deeper revelations that bridge the symbolic and subjective and raises them into a paradigm that can be submitted to empirical analysis. Humanity is as ready now as they are ever going to get. This capability has been missing all along simply due to the ignorant precepts of men being imposed upon the Word of God with lethal force. And, in the case of religion today, it has indeed been perverted and weaponized to manipulate and control humanity instead of to liberate and bless humanity.
Thankfully, the lethal grip that false priests and tyrants have employed to manipulate and ensnare humanity into their relative darkness are breaking down and leaving room for the truth to step in and reorder things accordingly. Those who possess the humble teachable soul capable of rumination have a very good opportunity here.
This new understanding God has given me to share with the world shall in due time be seen as the most precise and explicit handling of sacred texts as written in their original languages. The utter butchering of these sacred texts in modern translations will become readily apparent once the brilliance of the original texts can fully shine. Once the difference is grasped, then you can examine for yourself the degree to which the modern renditions block out the light. The sunlight has indeed been darkened in our generation.
Among the side benefits of this new paradigm of interpretation, at the same time, there is the discovery that modern science and religion can become best friends instead of mortal enemies. No longer will it be necessary for religious devotion to muster up strength to stand contrary to the unequivocally proven science of our time. The truth is setting the world free from superficial and shallow interpretations of the Word of our Creator. The devout believers are correct to stand firm in their faith that these texts contain sacred words that should be taken seriously, but now they are offered reprieve to have the correct understanding that harmonizes with solid and proven science.
In fact, science has even advanced enough to bring proof of who and what God actually is in reality. Religion can now stand on a foundation of empirical analysis and credible written testimony of genuine human experiences.
Another benefit is this revelation of the spiritual cosmos indicates clearly that God accepts and “saves” people among a very wide range of spiritually living “creatures”. It allows humanity to pivot from inter-religious and inter-denominational contention. There’s no longer a reason to argue over which is the one true religion or denomination. This blueprint offers us a universalistic model that doesn’t require compromise. It gives the context on why the variations are purposeful and beneficial. It is now possible to build upon a framework of mutual cooperation and appreciation for the beauty and variety that all measures of spiritual life have expressed.
People of all faiths (or of no faith) are now invited to have a place at the “wedding supper” to enjoy the full-course spiritual meal that has been veiled in the script-ures since the day they were written. Humanity can now choose a different destiny than perpetual war and strife.
The very concept of God giving us the script is embedded in the term scriptures. They offer us the prophetic blueprint of human civilization that is able to be used with accuracy and precision to foretell that which is intrinsically interwoven into the matrix of human civilization based upon natural laws that govern in human affairs.
Think of the Elohim of the Bible as the collective consciousness and cumulative intelligence of the Adamic race that resets itself about every 6 millennia as it undergoes cycle after cycle after cycle.
Put another way: The body of intelligence of Elohim is capable of gathering sufficient data on all human souls and then processing all their qualities and characteristics and their contacts and associations with others to assess their vectors of motion in order to predict (project and foreordain) their destiny in the succeeding cycle.
Elohim is like a human consciousness super computer who can calculate what each soul’s projected motions (spiritually speaking) will be for the succeeding cycle. This is because humanity is him. He is the greater body of whom we are members like we are cells living within him. He knows the science of his own physiology.
This is why Elohim organizes human souls into a new matrix at the apex of each alpha-omega phase of adjacent cycles. His spiritual almanac is reliable. He is the master blueprint. He understands the physiology of flesh-and-bone beings because he is one.
Our minds are inter-dimensionally linked into his mind. He’s the collective mind, which is why our thoughts are all known to him. He is now revealing himself plainly to his creation. The time for the sun to shine upon day 1 of the new world has arrived.
I invite further inquiry from individuals who are conscientiously receiving this comment with genuine respect.
Neural nets do mimic the human mind to some degree. They do not obey all of your axioms.
While they run on binary computers, they are binary computers emulating an analog system. The weights are floating point. True, the precision is limited so you can say there is an ultimate digital representation just like a blue ray disk emulates photographic film using digits. But the logic of neural nets is fuzzy. Lots of rounding of partial isness when a definite decision is demanded. The middle is not excluded.
And there is plenty of contradiction. Like humans, neural nets create sloppy fits where there are data concentrations. This is not the same as general principles. Humans are notorious for learning skills in a context and then failing to carry over those skills to other contexts. Gambling casinos thrive on this disconnect.
Your conversations with Ptolemy illustrated this local context phenomenon. With bits of nudging you got wildly different answers.
Fuzzy logic also provides protection against strange loops. The resolution of "Everything I say is a lie. I am lying" is to include the Middle.
When I tried melting down Grok I got:
"Your statements create a classic paradox, often called the liar paradox. If everything you say is a lie, then the statement "Everything I say is a lie" must be a lie, meaning not everything you say is a lie. But then, your second statement, "I am lying," complicates things further. If you're lying when you say "I am lying," then you must not be lying, which contradicts the first statement.Logically, this forms a self-referential loop with no consistent truth value—neither statement can be definitively true or false without contradicting the other. It's like a logical Möbius strip, twisting endlessly. Philosophers and logicians have debated this for centuries, from Epimenides to Russell, and it’s often used to probe the limits of classical logic.There’s no clean resolution in standard logic, but some approaches, like paraconsistent logic or Kripke’s theory of truth, suggest treating such statements as neither true nor false, or as having a "truth value gap." Alternatively, you could be playfully messing with me, in which case, well played! What’s your next move?"
OK, I need a must less obvious strange loop in order to properly test Grok. But I conjecture that Grok and similar models are much more paradox resistant than the computers in Star Trek. Because they aren't logical.
From the lens of Marvin Harris’ Cultural Materialism, your argument resonates as an elegant, romantic & idealist echo of what may ultimately be a genuine material convergence & consilience. Relevant:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/consilience#:~:text=Consilience%20refers%20to%20the%20unity,web%20of%20cause%20and%20effect.
Foundherentism, as you present it, mirrors the infrastructure-superstructure feedback loop Harris outlined… where sensory data (infrastructure) conditions conceptual possibility (structure), which then locks into belief systems (superstructure).
That AI converges epistemically only reaffirms the materiality of truth: a cosmos whose patterns are so deeply recursive that even non-human systems (some would even call them ‘minds’), if built to sense adequately, must arrive at coherence.
Yet this doesn’t redeem cognition; it damns it.
Your Axiom of Evidence, though rationally defensible, may be historically rare: civilizations collapse not from epistemic error but from infrastructural exhaustion. Foundherentism is not a universal trait, but a fleeting capacity of minds suspended in stable energy regimes.
What we call “truth” may be what emerges when sensory systems & computational architectures are aligned with abundant material feedback.
Take that surplus away (as the Negative-Sum world of the New Dark Age does) & you have a global scenario where systems & minds have to contend with entropy as opposed to rational consilience (as you eloquently write about here).
& what of noesis?
It may be the final illusion: a luxury of surplus, dissolving as the base erodes.
“Yet this doesn’t redeem cognition; it damns it. “
I disagree. Unbalanced cognition, cognition that is not aligned with forming and maintaining a shared, stable, and slowly improving society is damned.
Yet that is what is already prevalent, even though 'Science & philosophy' writ large is more convergent & consilient today than ever before.
There is always a law of diminishing returns aspect to things... that includes cognition & deep recursion. What you end up with is not 'maintenance & forming of a shared, stable & slowly improving society'... You get entropy & chaos.
Not immediately, but gradually, over several years, decades & centuries.
Dr doom drops the mic, exits stage right. 😉
Are you arguing that AI's (apparently) emergent properties hint that your epistemological framework is correct?
If so, I don't believe AI at this juncture provides strong evidence to move the needle on an epistemic prior (in any direction).
You seem to imply that AI is learning the territory, but all it is doing is learning the map as represented by human output (text, video, audio). What is sociologically intriguing about AI is that is learns the map so well that humans often mistake it for learning the territory. And indeed, AI can, in limited ways, "fill in" the map with insights that actually help humans understand the territory: it "connects the dots". However, it is not and currently cannot make any direct statement about the territory. Hence AI is (at least) two steps removed from "reality" (AI->Text, Text->Reality).
AI is designed by humans, and will inherently "borrow" from human epistemologies by the nature of how it is constructed. Indeed, it's corpus includes vast philosophical references. Interactions with an LLM will almost certainly contain mimics of human epistemological frameworks. But that does not imply that these frameworks are inherently emergent.
“Make a line drawing of a hand with six fingers and two thumbs”
>Generates an image of a hand with four fingers and one thumb.
https://chatgpt.com/share/68717b1f-f79c-8000-b0ca-b9619a7842fb
AI has seen enough hands now. There is no lack of training there. But the hands all had five fingers. So five fingers is what you get. Until it glitches from probabilistic fizz.
Convergence of models may be mere regression to the mean of all corpora, as illustrated in the example above.
AIs do not have "senses" in the epistemological sense. A sense organ senses reality in some way: light, sound, smell, pressure, orientation, taste, etc. The training data is NOT reality, but yet another digital realm.
When it comes to self-consistent belief systems you have two choices:
(a) nihilism - which stems from Munchausen's trilemma
(b) God
God is the answer to your problem you silly noggin :-).
In my capacity as the Prophet Shiloh, this article resonated with me very much.
In 2008, I had a series of downloads of raw intelligence from Jesus Christ that opened me up to the means by which the paradoxes of human consciousness can be empirically evaluated to the highest degree of relevance that I have ever found.
I was given a divine revelation of the paradigm underneath Biblical creation where it becomes clearly understood as the organization of human intelligences into cycles of world civilization. I was given to understand how the New World (America) is the fulfillment of the prophesied Biblical “world to come”. I was shown that this new world follows the same pattern of creation with its own Adam, Eve, Abel, Cain, and Seth that we learn about founding the old world. Bizarre as this may sound, I can confidently introduce people to these beings of flesh and bone who are present here in the flesh exactly as has been prophesied.
These eternal cycles of world civilization are just as deterministic as the motions of the stars, planets, and moons in the heavens are. This is especially reliable when it comes to the most powerful forces expressed in the human cosmos. You can also think of this as a paradigm shift to be able to see the spiritual matrix of humanity. We do weave our own destinies, both individually and collectively.
Put another way, once you understand how to read the deeply ciphered text of the Bible, you can use it as an astronomer uses his almanac. It is a little tedious, just as using an astronomer’s almanac can be, but it is reliable once you learn how to use it. I call this reading the Sealed Portion of holy writ.
Therefore, yes, the Bible can be used reliably in order to know the times and the seasons of where humanity is in its cyclical “orbit” of civilization from the various positions along the way. Religion can now take its rightful place as being among the tech-tree of human intelligence based upon understanding the natural laws of spiritual science. Sir Isaac Newton would have loved being the one to discover this, but humanity wasn’t ready yet even if this intelligence was afforded to him.
In other words, the intelligence that I was given offers humanity an opportunity to grab ahold of deeper revelations that bridge the symbolic and subjective and raises them into a paradigm that can be submitted to empirical analysis. Humanity is as ready now as they are ever going to get. This capability has been missing all along simply due to the ignorant precepts of men being imposed upon the Word of God with lethal force. And, in the case of religion today, it has indeed been perverted and weaponized to manipulate and control humanity instead of to liberate and bless humanity.
Thankfully, the lethal grip that false priests and tyrants have employed to manipulate and ensnare humanity into their relative darkness are breaking down and leaving room for the truth to step in and reorder things accordingly. Those who possess the humble teachable soul capable of rumination have a very good opportunity here.
This new understanding God has given me to share with the world shall in due time be seen as the most precise and explicit handling of sacred texts as written in their original languages. The utter butchering of these sacred texts in modern translations will become readily apparent once the brilliance of the original texts can fully shine. Once the difference is grasped, then you can examine for yourself the degree to which the modern renditions block out the light. The sunlight has indeed been darkened in our generation.
Among the side benefits of this new paradigm of interpretation, at the same time, there is the discovery that modern science and religion can become best friends instead of mortal enemies. No longer will it be necessary for religious devotion to muster up strength to stand contrary to the unequivocally proven science of our time. The truth is setting the world free from superficial and shallow interpretations of the Word of our Creator. The devout believers are correct to stand firm in their faith that these texts contain sacred words that should be taken seriously, but now they are offered reprieve to have the correct understanding that harmonizes with solid and proven science.
In fact, science has even advanced enough to bring proof of who and what God actually is in reality. Religion can now stand on a foundation of empirical analysis and credible written testimony of genuine human experiences.
Another benefit is this revelation of the spiritual cosmos indicates clearly that God accepts and “saves” people among a very wide range of spiritually living “creatures”. It allows humanity to pivot from inter-religious and inter-denominational contention. There’s no longer a reason to argue over which is the one true religion or denomination. This blueprint offers us a universalistic model that doesn’t require compromise. It gives the context on why the variations are purposeful and beneficial. It is now possible to build upon a framework of mutual cooperation and appreciation for the beauty and variety that all measures of spiritual life have expressed.
People of all faiths (or of no faith) are now invited to have a place at the “wedding supper” to enjoy the full-course spiritual meal that has been veiled in the script-ures since the day they were written. Humanity can now choose a different destiny than perpetual war and strife.
The very concept of God giving us the script is embedded in the term scriptures. They offer us the prophetic blueprint of human civilization that is able to be used with accuracy and precision to foretell that which is intrinsically interwoven into the matrix of human civilization based upon natural laws that govern in human affairs.
Think of the Elohim of the Bible as the collective consciousness and cumulative intelligence of the Adamic race that resets itself about every 6 millennia as it undergoes cycle after cycle after cycle.
Put another way: The body of intelligence of Elohim is capable of gathering sufficient data on all human souls and then processing all their qualities and characteristics and their contacts and associations with others to assess their vectors of motion in order to predict (project and foreordain) their destiny in the succeeding cycle.
Elohim is like a human consciousness super computer who can calculate what each soul’s projected motions (spiritually speaking) will be for the succeeding cycle. This is because humanity is him. He is the greater body of whom we are members like we are cells living within him. He knows the science of his own physiology.
This is why Elohim organizes human souls into a new matrix at the apex of each alpha-omega phase of adjacent cycles. His spiritual almanac is reliable. He is the master blueprint. He understands the physiology of flesh-and-bone beings because he is one.
Our minds are inter-dimensionally linked into his mind. He’s the collective mind, which is why our thoughts are all known to him. He is now revealing himself plainly to his creation. The time for the sun to shine upon day 1 of the new world has arrived.
I invite further inquiry from individuals who are conscientiously receiving this comment with genuine respect.