This is a comment for my regular readers/commenters. Do you guys favor the [nonexistent] moderation on this page? I tend to assume that anyone coming to "Tree of Woe" is the sort who'd rather a free speech brawl than heavy moderation for the sake of niceness, but I could be wrong.
Fascinating stuff. The central role of fire symbolism seems to me to suggest a strong influence from Zoroastrianism, rather than Judaism. Of course, Moses did see God as a burning bush, a pillar of fire by night, etc.; but it seems to me this was itself likely also of Zoroastrian origin.
What I'd really like to know is what their mythology was like. Every religion has one. Presumably it incorporated the pagan mythology, as a sort of pagan Old Testament, but there must have been something else. Did they have a prophet? Was the story of his life an important element? Was any of it written down, or was it a wholly oral tradition?
The central role of fire stood out to me too. We see a similar role in the early Greek and Roman religions (as documented in the book "The Ancient City") as well as in Vedic religion in India. It seems to be a primordial part of Indo-European religion that was sustained in several places.
As far as I can tell, the Hypsistarians would have taken pagan mythology as their mythology. I think they also would have incorporated things like Herodotus's reports on the cycles of the past and Plato's on Atlantis. The concept of prophets seems unique to Judaism, but I think the equivalent would have been great theurgists and philosophers. Pythagoras, for instance. Or, perhaps deified Emperors, like Aurelian Restitutor Orbus or Julius Caesar.
However, I don't see any evidence it has a central Christ- or Moses-like figure, which perhaps was its competitive disadvantage when confronted by a religion that DID have that.
I suspect the deified emperors likely played a somewhat minor role, alongside other deified heroes. Similar to the saint cults in Christianity. And I think you're right: having an embodied savior who existed in historical time was a crucial advantage. It made Christianity less abstract, more personal and concrete, and therefore more emotionally compelling.
Anecdotally, I used to have some Zoroastrian friends who believed the Abrahamic religions worshiped the same God or, less charitably after a few drinks, ripped them off.
""If you happen to be fluent in Ancient Greek and would like to translate Hypsistarian inscriptions, please reach out.""
If the offer is valid a year from now & you are willing to accept someone whose Ancient Greek is at the Upper Intermediate level (as opposed to "Proficient"/Advanced), Sign me up! :-P
I amend your efforts of reconstruction, but I would be wary of the attempt to reconcile the God of modern Christianity and modern paganism. The tradition of Christianity was markedly distinct from paganism even by the time of Constantine, and this Eastern cult in particular parallels Western pagan cults such as that of Sol Invictus. Attempting to align modern paganism’s monotheistic scheme which has an intense history of its own with the God of modern Christianity reeks with Gnostic undertones and a oversimplified, anachronistic philosophy.
Gnostics were attempting to do exactly what you seem to be doing. By combining Greek philosophy (mostly Platonism), pagan dualism, and Christian Scripture, they created a religion that could comfortably accommodate its membership into the contemporary world and not piss of the pagan religious authorities.
Sure, but the Christians attempted to do exactly what I'm doing, too. Plutarch, my primary intellectual inspiration in this effort, was the one of THE most-quoted authors by the early church fathers. Patristic writing is FILLED with attempts to harmonize Pagan and Christian thought. My project is to point out that Pagan and Christian thought could be reconciled because (many of) the pagans were already monotheists.
In any case, the core beliefs are Gnosticism is that the demiurge is evil and the cosmos is a prison, and I reject those beliefs entirely. I could rightfully be accused of Arianism or Pelagianism, but definitely not of Gnosticism.
Obviously we don’t live in that world, but it seems fruitless to reconcile two opposing religious traditions especially since Christianity’s theology is undoubtedly stronger.
Marcion of Sinope also rejected the god of the Jews, saying that Jesus was sent by the Heavenly Father but not Yahweh, whose atrocities are documented in the OT. Marcion is generally agreed not to have been a Gnostic.
Just a couple observations. In the ancient mystical tradition the god above god has no name, simply a notation, such aether. To name someone or something is to attempt to contain them, and source cannot be contained.
The Eagle is the universal animal of the realized human spirit. Perhaps we can recall that Agamemnon chose for his new incarnation to be an Eagle, and soar above the petty affairs of men.
Fire derives not from any abrahamic source, it is element that is highest of the true triad of elements, and is that by which all creation is fashioned. This realization is ancient.
The Ynges speak with voices of fire. From this, one can derive the term Angels, which developed at a later date.
In short, the worship is not in accordance with abrahamics, although master Dionysus did manage to place the practice within nascent Christianity until the onslaught of Aquinas.
It is important to understand the worship of the god most high is effectively a distilled praise from the mysticism which informs the praxis of religion.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to state that my studies have taken a lifetime and are ongoing.. The basis for this exploration is an attempt to make sense of my life. I write about some of this, on my little substack and elsewhere now and then.
I call what you are writing about here a thread from the western mystical tradition, because the themes and supports are consistent over a thousand years and more. This tradition isn't what we think of today, because it was driven underground by the murderous rise of the abrahamics.
For those who doubt this, I have but one question; what happened to the Cathars?
A major center for this tradition was ancient Alexandria.
There is not one simple source, some Bible where one can go to learn about the ancient mystical tradition, but it does live, as long as there is someone to walk this path. One scholar who does write some on this topic is Jeff Kupperman. He can be found under the heading of Theurgy. To my knowledge he is the only writer who dares to pick up the structure of Sunthema, the tokens that direct the ascent of the soul.
I see the religion of the god above god as a natural development from this ancient tradition. In every religion outside of the abrahamics, mysticism informs the praxis. It provides the realization and the intensity required for meaningful devotion.
He used to edit an online journal that covered wide ranging topics including mysticism. His writers were erudite, and themselves deeply involved practitioners. He knows his stuff. Personally I'm glad he's still around.
Your arrogant provincialism is oozing out again, Eugine. Drawing spurious conclusions is apparently your specialty. Woke derives most directly from Marxism, which was in truth a rebuttal to the hypocrisy and meaninglessness of Christian society.
Oh and by the way, Marcion was not a proto-Gnostic, whatever that term is supposed to mean.
One could just as easily claim, and with far more accuracy, that Sol Invictus was proto-christianity, and Mithras as was the philosophical proto-jesus of the abrahamics.
> Woke derives most directly from Marxism, which was in truth a rebuttal to the hypocrisy and meaninglessness of Christian society.
"Marxism is not derived from my philosophy, BTW, this Marx guy also has a point."
> Oh and by the way, Marcion was not a proto-Gnostic
Right, that they both believed that the God of the old testament was an evil Demiurge that Jesus was sent to save us from is a complete coincidence.
> One could just as easily claim, and with far more accuracy, that Sol Invictus was proto-christianity, and Mithras as was the philosophical proto-jesus of the abrahamics.
Um, yes. You as usual, don't know what you are talking about.
Fist of all, dude, Gnosticism isn't a series of beliefs codified by Philip k. Dick. Nobody sat down and created a Septuagint for Gnosis. Your proto-Gnostic term is both misleading and absurd. For the record, Gnosticism remains a significant development that directly participates in the logic, language, and mystical experience that forms the western mystical tradition. You obviously have no comprehension of this, no understanding of Emanation, and absolutely zero respect for those who do.
The Cathari were exterminated by this same, exact blockheaded ignorance that purports a series of irrational beliefs to be above any examination other than fawning obedience. If you want to celebrate this genocide as a highpoint of abrahamic culture, prepare, for you can offer no worthwhile argument to spare you and yours when the next group of murderous psychopaths paints a target on you.
Truth is, dude that the abrahamic complex can be quite easily explained throughout history, and traced through a series of societal and political developments. There is, for example, nothing in Christianity that is uniquely Christian, and that includes the self congradulatory praise the abrahamics heap upon themselves regarding monotheism..
Here, briefly, I will point out a small factoid for those who can't think beyond simple categories. Gnosticism is an essential aspect of the western mystical tradition.
> The Ynges speak with voices of fire. From this, one can derive the term Angels, which developed at a later date.
No search engine appears to have heard of "Ynges". However, the word "Angels" derives from the Greek word ἄγγελος meaning messenger, used as a translation of the Hebrew mal'ach also meaning messenger.
You won't find Ynges in any dictionary. You also won't find a workable definition for most terms associated with Gnosticism, nor will you discover anything useful concerning any explanation for the Immovable Ones.. Deferring to Hebrew is a nice trick, but you won't learn anything from them.
Oct 11, 2023·edited Oct 11, 2023Liked by Tree of Woe
Addendum: I should have said... "If the offer is valid a year from now, you are ok with an Upper Intermediate (rather than an Advanced) student of Ancient Greek AND the Demonlord is not summoned in the flesh due to mass Human sacrifice"... because there is no guarantee that there will be an October, 2024 at this rate of Doom Progression! ...
Oct 11, 2023·edited Oct 11, 2023Liked by Tree of Woe
"...if we survive..."
Moments ago [Intel Slava; take with a huge heap of salt]:
>> 🇱🇧🇮🇱⚡There are reports of a massive drone attack on Israel from Lebanon. There is also information about Hezbollah fighters crossing the border on paragliders.
— 🇮🇱/🇱🇧 BREAKING: Armed fighters blow up the Lebanese border fence and enter Israel from the north
@Middle_East_Spectator
#URGENT
🇱🇧❌🇮🇱❗️ — 📰 Admma News quoting Israeli Channel 12: Manned paragliders were observed entering from Lebanon!
Asking all residents to shut down and hide into shelters and not leave
Oct 11, 2023·edited Oct 11, 2023Liked by Tree of Woe
I would not have a problem.
Spoiler alert (And I say this as someone who has worked with Linguistics people): MOST translations are *very half a***d* :-P.
A lot of the Mediaeval stuff (such as Middle High German, Old French, etc) are done these days by Zombie, Enslaved, perpetually insomniac Grad Students.
This is because (1) Nobody wants to study that stuff in University anymore & (2) Only a select few European Universities have the proper expertise to deal with the manuscripts.
I am far from fluent in ancient Greek, but I thank you for this post. Considering that Akhenaten worshipped only Ra as a supreme god, I wonder about connections between Akhenaton and the Apollonian priests who worshipped the sun as a non-supreme god?
I listened to the YouTube "Revolt Against the Modern World - Episode 9: The Two Paths in the Afterlife" and was struck with how it echoes both Buddhist and Eastern Orthodox Christian Asceticism. It seems that what is being talked about here is a kind of "Bhakti-Yoga", where the attention is fixed and focused (samadhi) on the Highest, such that a state of union exists before death.
It just occurred to me that “worship” may be an intrinsic transcendent function of consciousness, that activates when specific conditions exist, independent of any conceptual or doctrinal formulation.
I came back here to mention that our Christian forebears grafted a Pagan afterlife (heaven and hell) onto the Yahwist universe in which the dead are destined for dark, joyless Sheol. So paganism is still with us and is not so controversial as a devout Christian might assume. And the nonexistence promised by atheism is a rebadged Yahwist belief.
> I came back here to mention that our Christian forebears grafted a Pagan afterlife
Um, the pagan afterlife tends to be joyless Hades. As the shade of Achilles said after Odysseus summoned him "I'd rather be a serf among the living than king of all the dead".
I used to think this was the case but further reading has persuaded me that there are actually several different pagan afterlives. I'll include the one I'm going with in the next article.
I will say I was quite puzzled when I began to read Christian theology and discovered that the Christian afterlife was not only not what I thought, but actually there were several different ones that didn't all agree!
No but FWIW I have a crooked nose from a fight and would rather be killed every day, brought back to life and feast with bros and blonde babes every day in preparation for the ultimate cage match instead of rotting in jail all with a bunch of middle easterners missing an important body part. Pick your poison, we’re all gonna die anyway.
In respect to your project reconciling Abrahamic and pagan monotheism, how would a future amalgam monotheism not suffer the pitfalls of existing monotheism, which is to say, depend upon mediators/priests who often act like petty dictators, who then come together to demonize anyone not of the religion?
This summary is incredible. I'd never heard of pagan monotheism (apart from neoplatonistic monism) before your previous post. Thank you so much for sharing!
""God Most High is worshipped in morning and evening, specifically at sunrise and sunset. When praying, worshippers face the sun (east in the morning and west in the evening), raise their hands high, and sing hymns and offer acclamations to God.""
Interesting!
The Fajr & Maghrib prayers occur prior to daybreak & prior to sunset (respectively) & both have special supplications since the Lunar "Day" begins at sunset & ends at daybreak.
One of them happen to be: "اللَّهُمَّ أَجِرْنِي مِنَ النَّارِ" (Literally "Oh Allah, Protect me from the Fires of Hell")
Which transliterates to "Allahumma Ajirni Minnan Nar". Relevant Hadith:
>> Al-Harith b. Muslim al-Tamimi quoted his father Muslim b. al-Harith al-Tamimi as saying that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) told him secretly:
When you finish the sunset prayer, say: ‘O Allah, protect me from Hell” seven times; for if you say that and die that night, protection from it would be recorded for you; and when you finish the dawn prayer, say it in a similar way, for if you die that day, protection from it would be recorded for you. Abu Sa’id told me that al-Harith said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said this to us secretly, so we confine it to our brethren.
Out of curiosity, what do Muslims do when they (due to work) they cannot complete their prayer at the appoint time. For instance, imagine you're a traffic cop working the 4AM to 8AM shift. When dawn hits at 6AM, you cannot stop to pray. Does he "make up for it" by praying as soon as possible, e.g. at 8AM? Wait until the next prayer cycle?
Also, The prayer cycles have time slots to them. So Fajr (i.e. the Dawn prayer) in most parts of the world would have a 2 hour window.
Finding 3-5 mins within the 2 hours is quite doable.
The tricky one (especially in northern climates) would be Maghrib (i.e. the evening prayer) since it may have a 30-40 minute window max. Finding 7-10 minutes for Maghrib is a bit trickier since you are dealing with such a small window.
Fajr (the Dawn prayer) would take 3-5 minutes maximum if executed properly (it is the shortest prayer). So you take a "washroom break", perform ritual ablution (i.e. "wudhu") and then pray. Should be doable for most professions.
Its an interesting thought experiment. I can't see the number of "pagan right-wing allies" being large enough that reconciling them with Christianity serves any real utility, but what you write should be interesting enough.
Since Jews worship the same God as Christians but are irreconcilable with Christianity, what makes the hypothetical Pagan monotheism any more reconcilable?
It seems incredibly cynical to incorporate "morality" from unrelated sources into the religion of Pagan Monotheism and call it a unified religion. If I'm reading correctly, you have evidence of a god that was worshiped in late antiquity. You have evidence of prayers to this god.
If I was being uncharitable I would say that this is just an attempt to construct your own religion that suits you so that you don't have to join the Christian majority, not an attempt to bring together the "Pagan alt-right" with Christianity. I fail to see how this is any different from humanism just with a god tacked on.
Could anyone really worship a god that they knew left no commandments for them? This just sounds like what the people who say they worship Odin or Thor do. LARPing.
"God Most High is an aniconic (unrepresented or “invisible”) monotheist god who is self-begotten, imperishable, and unchangeable."
This was the 'killer app' or 'competitive advantage' of the euangelion of Christ. We have at last a true icon of the Most High, who lived with us in the flesh. This is why the Acheiropoietos – the Burial Shroud of the Lord - the Icon Not Made By Human Hands, AKA the Shroud of Turin, featured so prominently in the Paschal Liturgy of Hagia Sophia and why copies where made for as many Imperial Churches as possible.
Right. John Carter and I were chatting about that in the comments earlier. The epic of Christ-as-Incarnate-Logos seems like it was a strong competitive advantage.
This is a comment for my regular readers/commenters. Do you guys favor the [nonexistent] moderation on this page? I tend to assume that anyone coming to "Tree of Woe" is the sort who'd rather a free speech brawl than heavy moderation for the sake of niceness, but I could be wrong.
I am only recently a regular reader, but I definitely prefer the free speech brawl to anything else.
Fascinating stuff. The central role of fire symbolism seems to me to suggest a strong influence from Zoroastrianism, rather than Judaism. Of course, Moses did see God as a burning bush, a pillar of fire by night, etc.; but it seems to me this was itself likely also of Zoroastrian origin.
What I'd really like to know is what their mythology was like. Every religion has one. Presumably it incorporated the pagan mythology, as a sort of pagan Old Testament, but there must have been something else. Did they have a prophet? Was the story of his life an important element? Was any of it written down, or was it a wholly oral tradition?
The central role of fire stood out to me too. We see a similar role in the early Greek and Roman religions (as documented in the book "The Ancient City") as well as in Vedic religion in India. It seems to be a primordial part of Indo-European religion that was sustained in several places.
As far as I can tell, the Hypsistarians would have taken pagan mythology as their mythology. I think they also would have incorporated things like Herodotus's reports on the cycles of the past and Plato's on Atlantis. The concept of prophets seems unique to Judaism, but I think the equivalent would have been great theurgists and philosophers. Pythagoras, for instance. Or, perhaps deified Emperors, like Aurelian Restitutor Orbus or Julius Caesar.
However, I don't see any evidence it has a central Christ- or Moses-like figure, which perhaps was its competitive disadvantage when confronted by a religion that DID have that.
I suspect the deified emperors likely played a somewhat minor role, alongside other deified heroes. Similar to the saint cults in Christianity. And I think you're right: having an embodied savior who existed in historical time was a crucial advantage. It made Christianity less abstract, more personal and concrete, and therefore more emotionally compelling.
I wonder if that was functionally the role of Dionysus!
Only without the wild Bacchanalias.
Need more Bacchanalias
More's the pity.
Anecdotally, I used to have some Zoroastrian friends who believed the Abrahamic religions worshiped the same God or, less charitably after a few drinks, ripped them off.
Given that the Zoroastrians predate the Abrahamics by a considerable margin, they're quite justified in their lack of charity.
""If you happen to be fluent in Ancient Greek and would like to translate Hypsistarian inscriptions, please reach out.""
If the offer is valid a year from now & you are willing to accept someone whose Ancient Greek is at the Upper Intermediate level (as opposed to "Proficient"/Advanced), Sign me up! :-P
τις τους αὐτου λογους Ἑλληνικους οὐκ ἐμαθεν!
Οι Έλληνες δεν μπορούν να μιλήσουν αττικά. Σχετικό:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2fRTS8DZ8U&t=118s
Modern Greek is so weird to me.
You speak Ancient Greek?
I can read it fairly well. There's a *lot* of different dialects, so I focus mostly on the classical period and the epic poets.
If you send me some stuff, I can try my hand at translating. Inscriptions / prayers tend to be weird, but I'll give it my best shot!
OK! What would be the best way to get ahold of you?
I amend your efforts of reconstruction, but I would be wary of the attempt to reconcile the God of modern Christianity and modern paganism. The tradition of Christianity was markedly distinct from paganism even by the time of Constantine, and this Eastern cult in particular parallels Western pagan cults such as that of Sol Invictus. Attempting to align modern paganism’s monotheistic scheme which has an intense history of its own with the God of modern Christianity reeks with Gnostic undertones and a oversimplified, anachronistic philosophy.
I can assure you that I'm not a Gnostic nor going to become one! I think the Gnostics are wrong about everything.
Gnostics were attempting to do exactly what you seem to be doing. By combining Greek philosophy (mostly Platonism), pagan dualism, and Christian Scripture, they created a religion that could comfortably accommodate its membership into the contemporary world and not piss of the pagan religious authorities.
Sure, but the Christians attempted to do exactly what I'm doing, too. Plutarch, my primary intellectual inspiration in this effort, was the one of THE most-quoted authors by the early church fathers. Patristic writing is FILLED with attempts to harmonize Pagan and Christian thought. My project is to point out that Pagan and Christian thought could be reconciled because (many of) the pagans were already monotheists.
In any case, the core beliefs are Gnosticism is that the demiurge is evil and the cosmos is a prison, and I reject those beliefs entirely. I could rightfully be accused of Arianism or Pelagianism, but definitely not of Gnosticism.
Obviously we don’t live in that world, but it seems fruitless to reconcile two opposing religious traditions especially since Christianity’s theology is undoubtedly stronger.
I can't believe I'm being told not to study Roman monotheism by someone named Scipio Africanus. Don't Zama me, bro! :-D
Marcion of Sinope also rejected the god of the Jews, saying that Jesus was sent by the Heavenly Father but not Yahweh, whose atrocities are documented in the OT. Marcion is generally agreed not to have been a Gnostic.
Marcion is generally considered a proto-Gnostic.
Excellent article, thank you.
Just a couple observations. In the ancient mystical tradition the god above god has no name, simply a notation, such aether. To name someone or something is to attempt to contain them, and source cannot be contained.
The Eagle is the universal animal of the realized human spirit. Perhaps we can recall that Agamemnon chose for his new incarnation to be an Eagle, and soar above the petty affairs of men.
Fire derives not from any abrahamic source, it is element that is highest of the true triad of elements, and is that by which all creation is fashioned. This realization is ancient.
The Ynges speak with voices of fire. From this, one can derive the term Angels, which developed at a later date.
In short, the worship is not in accordance with abrahamics, although master Dionysus did manage to place the practice within nascent Christianity until the onslaught of Aquinas.
It is important to understand the worship of the god most high is effectively a distilled praise from the mysticism which informs the praxis of religion.
Thanks! It seems you have studied these issues deeply. I am still exploring and learning.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to state that my studies have taken a lifetime and are ongoing.. The basis for this exploration is an attempt to make sense of my life. I write about some of this, on my little substack and elsewhere now and then.
I call what you are writing about here a thread from the western mystical tradition, because the themes and supports are consistent over a thousand years and more. This tradition isn't what we think of today, because it was driven underground by the murderous rise of the abrahamics.
For those who doubt this, I have but one question; what happened to the Cathars?
A major center for this tradition was ancient Alexandria.
There is not one simple source, some Bible where one can go to learn about the ancient mystical tradition, but it does live, as long as there is someone to walk this path. One scholar who does write some on this topic is Jeff Kupperman. He can be found under the heading of Theurgy. To my knowledge he is the only writer who dares to pick up the structure of Sunthema, the tokens that direct the ascent of the soul.
I see the religion of the god above god as a natural development from this ancient tradition. In every religion outside of the abrahamics, mysticism informs the praxis. It provides the realization and the intensity required for meaningful devotion.
I've read two of Jeff's books. He's very learned on these matters!
He used to edit an online journal that covered wide ranging topics including mysticism. His writers were erudite, and themselves deeply involved practitioners. He knows his stuff. Personally I'm glad he's still around.
> For those who doubt this, I have but one question; what happened to the Cathars?
Sadly, their intellectual descendants, currently called the "woke", are still with us.
Your arrogant provincialism is oozing out again, Eugine. Drawing spurious conclusions is apparently your specialty. Woke derives most directly from Marxism, which was in truth a rebuttal to the hypocrisy and meaninglessness of Christian society.
Oh and by the way, Marcion was not a proto-Gnostic, whatever that term is supposed to mean.
One could just as easily claim, and with far more accuracy, that Sol Invictus was proto-christianity, and Mithras as was the philosophical proto-jesus of the abrahamics.
> Woke derives most directly from Marxism, which was in truth a rebuttal to the hypocrisy and meaninglessness of Christian society.
"Marxism is not derived from my philosophy, BTW, this Marx guy also has a point."
> Oh and by the way, Marcion was not a proto-Gnostic
Right, that they both believed that the God of the old testament was an evil Demiurge that Jesus was sent to save us from is a complete coincidence.
> One could just as easily claim, and with far more accuracy, that Sol Invictus was proto-christianity, and Mithras as was the philosophical proto-jesus of the abrahamics.
Um, no. Complete ahistorical BS.
Um, yes. You as usual, don't know what you are talking about.
Fist of all, dude, Gnosticism isn't a series of beliefs codified by Philip k. Dick. Nobody sat down and created a Septuagint for Gnosis. Your proto-Gnostic term is both misleading and absurd. For the record, Gnosticism remains a significant development that directly participates in the logic, language, and mystical experience that forms the western mystical tradition. You obviously have no comprehension of this, no understanding of Emanation, and absolutely zero respect for those who do.
The Cathari were exterminated by this same, exact blockheaded ignorance that purports a series of irrational beliefs to be above any examination other than fawning obedience. If you want to celebrate this genocide as a highpoint of abrahamic culture, prepare, for you can offer no worthwhile argument to spare you and yours when the next group of murderous psychopaths paints a target on you.
Truth is, dude that the abrahamic complex can be quite easily explained throughout history, and traced through a series of societal and political developments. There is, for example, nothing in Christianity that is uniquely Christian, and that includes the self congradulatory praise the abrahamics heap upon themselves regarding monotheism..
Here, briefly, I will point out a small factoid for those who can't think beyond simple categories. Gnosticism is an essential aspect of the western mystical tradition.
So just for the record, are you for or against Gnosticism?
> The Ynges speak with voices of fire. From this, one can derive the term Angels, which developed at a later date.
No search engine appears to have heard of "Ynges". However, the word "Angels" derives from the Greek word ἄγγελος meaning messenger, used as a translation of the Hebrew mal'ach also meaning messenger.
You won't find Ynges in any dictionary. You also won't find a workable definition for most terms associated with Gnosticism, nor will you discover anything useful concerning any explanation for the Immovable Ones.. Deferring to Hebrew is a nice trick, but you won't learn anything from them.
So did you make all this stuff up, or did you get it from someone else who probably made it all up?
Addendum: I should have said... "If the offer is valid a year from now, you are ok with an Upper Intermediate (rather than an Advanced) student of Ancient Greek AND the Demonlord is not summoned in the flesh due to mass Human sacrifice"... because there is no guarantee that there will be an October, 2024 at this rate of Doom Progression! ...
How would you feel about "Half Assed Translations" in the near-term and if we survive we can revisit them? Heh
"...if we survive..."
Moments ago [Intel Slava; take with a huge heap of salt]:
>> 🇱🇧🇮🇱⚡There are reports of a massive drone attack on Israel from Lebanon. There is also information about Hezbollah fighters crossing the border on paragliders.
— 🇮🇱/🇱🇧 BREAKING: Armed fighters blow up the Lebanese border fence and enter Israel from the north
@Middle_East_Spectator
#URGENT
🇱🇧❌🇮🇱❗️ — 📰 Admma News quoting Israeli Channel 12: Manned paragliders were observed entering from Lebanon!
Asking all residents to shut down and hide into shelters and not leave
https://t.me/admma_news/77075
🇺🇲🇱🇧 The US is preparing to evacuate the embassy from Beirut.
🇺🇲🇱🇧⚡ The American embassy in Lebanon is being evacuated. American citizens are advised to leave the country as soon as possible. <<
... Bruh, ya gotta stop jinxing it! :-P
Addendum: VOA denies the Embassy evacuation order. No denial yet however of the northern border being breached.
This is Fog of War x1000 gentlemen! :'P
I would not have a problem.
Spoiler alert (And I say this as someone who has worked with Linguistics people): MOST translations are *very half a***d* :-P.
A lot of the Mediaeval stuff (such as Middle High German, Old French, etc) are done these days by Zombie, Enslaved, perpetually insomniac Grad Students.
This is because (1) Nobody wants to study that stuff in University anymore & (2) Only a select few European Universities have the proper expertise to deal with the manuscripts.
I am far from fluent in ancient Greek, but I thank you for this post. Considering that Akhenaten worshipped only Ra as a supreme god, I wonder about connections between Akhenaton and the Apollonian priests who worshipped the sun as a non-supreme god?
I've wondered the same. I am confident there are ties, but the exact nature of them is difficult to discern.
I listened to the YouTube "Revolt Against the Modern World - Episode 9: The Two Paths in the Afterlife" and was struck with how it echoes both Buddhist and Eastern Orthodox Christian Asceticism. It seems that what is being talked about here is a kind of "Bhakti-Yoga", where the attention is fixed and focused (samadhi) on the Highest, such that a state of union exists before death.
It just occurred to me that “worship” may be an intrinsic transcendent function of consciousness, that activates when specific conditions exist, independent of any conceptual or doctrinal formulation.
That's a really interesting idea. I'd like to see that explored more.
I came back here to mention that our Christian forebears grafted a Pagan afterlife (heaven and hell) onto the Yahwist universe in which the dead are destined for dark, joyless Sheol. So paganism is still with us and is not so controversial as a devout Christian might assume. And the nonexistence promised by atheism is a rebadged Yahwist belief.
> I came back here to mention that our Christian forebears grafted a Pagan afterlife
Um, the pagan afterlife tends to be joyless Hades. As the shade of Achilles said after Odysseus summoned him "I'd rather be a serf among the living than king of all the dead".
I used to think this was the case but further reading has persuaded me that there are actually several different pagan afterlives. I'll include the one I'm going with in the next article.
I will say I was quite puzzled when I began to read Christian theology and discovered that the Christian afterlife was not only not what I thought, but actually there were several different ones that didn't all agree!
Valhalla is pretty cool.
Have you ever actually been in a battle where you stood a good chance of getting killed?
No but FWIW I have a crooked nose from a fight and would rather be killed every day, brought back to life and feast with bros and blonde babes every day in preparation for the ultimate cage match instead of rotting in jail all with a bunch of middle easterners missing an important body part. Pick your poison, we’re all gonna die anyway.
In respect to your project reconciling Abrahamic and pagan monotheism, how would a future amalgam monotheism not suffer the pitfalls of existing monotheism, which is to say, depend upon mediators/priests who often act like petty dictators, who then come together to demonize anyone not of the religion?
I don't have an answer to that yet. I don't usually begin these projects with clear answers in mind, I'm exploring as I go!
Well our current problem isn't that Christian leaders are too quick to demonize, it's that too many of them are unwilling to call out lies and evil.
Agreed.
Fascinating! Looking forward to the next instalment!
Awesome! I've already started writing it.
This summary is incredible. I'd never heard of pagan monotheism (apart from neoplatonistic monism) before your previous post. Thank you so much for sharing!
I had the same reaction - I stumbled onto it and was astounded.
""God Most High is worshipped in morning and evening, specifically at sunrise and sunset. When praying, worshippers face the sun (east in the morning and west in the evening), raise their hands high, and sing hymns and offer acclamations to God.""
Interesting!
The Fajr & Maghrib prayers occur prior to daybreak & prior to sunset (respectively) & both have special supplications since the Lunar "Day" begins at sunset & ends at daybreak.
One of them happen to be: "اللَّهُمَّ أَجِرْنِي مِنَ النَّارِ" (Literally "Oh Allah, Protect me from the Fires of Hell")
Which transliterates to "Allahumma Ajirni Minnan Nar". Relevant Hadith:
>> Al-Harith b. Muslim al-Tamimi quoted his father Muslim b. al-Harith al-Tamimi as saying that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) told him secretly:
When you finish the sunset prayer, say: ‘O Allah, protect me from Hell” seven times; for if you say that and die that night, protection from it would be recorded for you; and when you finish the dawn prayer, say it in a similar way, for if you die that day, protection from it would be recorded for you. Abu Sa’id told me that al-Harith said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said this to us secretly, so we confine it to our brethren.
Reference: Sunan Abi Dawud 5079<<
Out of curiosity, what do Muslims do when they (due to work) they cannot complete their prayer at the appoint time. For instance, imagine you're a traffic cop working the 4AM to 8AM shift. When dawn hits at 6AM, you cannot stop to pray. Does he "make up for it" by praying as soon as possible, e.g. at 8AM? Wait until the next prayer cycle?
Also, The prayer cycles have time slots to them. So Fajr (i.e. the Dawn prayer) in most parts of the world would have a 2 hour window.
Finding 3-5 mins within the 2 hours is quite doable.
The tricky one (especially in northern climates) would be Maghrib (i.e. the evening prayer) since it may have a 30-40 minute window max. Finding 7-10 minutes for Maghrib is a bit trickier since you are dealing with such a small window.
He would make it up asap. That being said:
Fajr (the Dawn prayer) would take 3-5 minutes maximum if executed properly (it is the shortest prayer). So you take a "washroom break", perform ritual ablution (i.e. "wudhu") and then pray. Should be doable for most professions.
Its an interesting thought experiment. I can't see the number of "pagan right-wing allies" being large enough that reconciling them with Christianity serves any real utility, but what you write should be interesting enough.
Since Jews worship the same God as Christians but are irreconcilable with Christianity, what makes the hypothetical Pagan monotheism any more reconcilable?
It seems incredibly cynical to incorporate "morality" from unrelated sources into the religion of Pagan Monotheism and call it a unified religion. If I'm reading correctly, you have evidence of a god that was worshiped in late antiquity. You have evidence of prayers to this god.
If I was being uncharitable I would say that this is just an attempt to construct your own religion that suits you so that you don't have to join the Christian majority, not an attempt to bring together the "Pagan alt-right" with Christianity. I fail to see how this is any different from humanism just with a god tacked on.
Could anyone really worship a god that they knew left no commandments for them? This just sounds like what the people who say they worship Odin or Thor do. LARPing.
> Could anyone really worship a god that they knew left no commandments for them?
This kind of empty spiritualism is just the next step on the slide to nihilism after the attempt at secular Utopia fails.
Fr. Seraphim Rose described this process in his book *Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age*.
"God Most High is an aniconic (unrepresented or “invisible”) monotheist god who is self-begotten, imperishable, and unchangeable."
This was the 'killer app' or 'competitive advantage' of the euangelion of Christ. We have at last a true icon of the Most High, who lived with us in the flesh. This is why the Acheiropoietos – the Burial Shroud of the Lord - the Icon Not Made By Human Hands, AKA the Shroud of Turin, featured so prominently in the Paschal Liturgy of Hagia Sophia and why copies where made for as many Imperial Churches as possible.
Right. John Carter and I were chatting about that in the comments earlier. The epic of Christ-as-Incarnate-Logos seems like it was a strong competitive advantage.